Curse

madman420 · Aug 14, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver_Fang

Locked gate have appeared in a lot of RPG, its not uncommon to have a locked gate to stop people from storyline progression.

That doesn't mean it's a good thing. Most RPG's strive to be non-linear, allowing you to limitlessly explore the environment without having to complete quests to access the next area. I found the gates quite annoying in factions, and definitely hope they rethink this idea for nightfall.

The truth itself · Aug 14, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

QFT

my Guildie had 15K Glads at level One on his warrior, he's also one of the most talented players i have ever had the grace to play with

I 2nd that entirely, I ran a friend's warrior run to desert at lvl 13, beat the mirror and got to L20 instantly.

Do you accept the fact that there are many players out there, who don't give a coin for PvE gameplay and grinding?

The only reason i played through Factions more than once was because i lacked some skills and i wanted to make more money off farming bosses. I didn't playing through it the 3rd time, it was very frustrating to watch certain cinematics and do some certain unspokken missions with dumb people.

No, I don't like Locked gates.

Amy Awien · Aug 14, 2006, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver_Fang

Locked gate have appeared in a lot of RPG, its not uncommon to have a locked gate to stop people from storyline progression.

No, not true. No locked gates in the ones I've played, GW is the first. Most RPG's use less annoying methods to seperate different stages of the story. Although true non-lineairity is not possible, making your rpg is feel non-lineair seems a designgoal common to rpg's.
I don't mind if there a a few such "gates" - in whatever from they come - but Factions tool it into absurdity.

GW's locked gates have nothing to do with story progression. ANet doesn't seem to care much about story, as is shown by the way expert and masters completion of missions.

In the end it doesn't matter what their reasoning was, I didn't like it, it annoyed me and if any sequels are going to bring the same, or similar, annoyances, I certainly will not buy them.

majoho · Aug 14, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

I think it's fine that it's open as long as running won't give you an advantage at a lower level like it does in chapter 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The truth itself

it was very frustrating to watch certain cinematics and do some certain unspokken missions with dumb people.

Attention span FTW

Ruby Lightheart · Aug 14, 2006, 07:22 AM // 07:22

i understand why they put the roadblocks up in Factions..its cause people were charging or asking for tips to run low level characters to areas you arent supposed toget to until you reach a certain level.

I think what shoulda been done is a lock out...where you have to complete Glints missions before you can enter Droknars...and Sanctum Cay before you could enter the desert. Just putting the lock on those two areas woulda taken alot of business away from Runners.

But then again..a big part of me feels that if someone wants to cheat themselves out of experienceing the full game by paying another to run them to Droks so they can get the good armor...well we all know who they are cause one look at the armor and their level and you know what they did...cheated no one but themselves

Ruby Lightheart · Aug 14, 2006, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

I think it's fine that it's open as long as running won't give you an advantage at a lower level like it does in chapter 1.

Attention span FTW

Like that you cant get the 1.5 or 15k armor until you reach level 20?

Darakus · Aug 14, 2006, 08:11 AM // 08:11

The closed doors were not needed to stop runs in Factions, the only run you needed to get the max armor and capture signets for elites as well as all commons was Marketplace to Kaineng center and you could do that one with a really low level.

A runner only ruins the game if he brings a player somewhere that player can get an unfair advantage, in Factions this was definitely not the case.

Concerning Prophecies the only run that had any impact on gameplay was the one from Northern shiverpeaks to southern shiverpeaks that allowed players to get max armor for the low level arenas all other runs were just a service and had no impact on my game whatsoever, stating that they ruined the game is a bit extreme in my opinion and far from easy to justify.

Saying that closed doors blocked exploration is however a fact and that said it was not them that blocked runners but the mobs otherwise running services would have been proposed for each quest and each mission simply asking from players to take the quests in between.

Thallandor · Aug 14, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

in short, not signed for locked gates.

As for runners, if others want to pay for running services to "ruin" their gameplay experience, thats their bussiness. Dont impose your own high and mighty morals over other choices or styles.

Your game experience is your own and what you make of it, dont tell others how they should play the game.

majoho · Aug 14, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

As for runners, if others want to pay for running services to "ruin" their gameplay experience, thats their bussiness. Dont impose your own high and mighty morals over other choices or styles.

Your game experience is your own and what you make of it, dont tell others how they should play the game.

You fail to see the point then, if running gives you an advantage it's unfair and has nothing to do with imposing morals.

majoho · Aug 14, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruby Lightheart

Like that you cant get the 1.5 or 15k armor until you reach level 20?

that was indeed what I meant.

Thallandor · Aug 14, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

You fail to see the point then, if running gives you an advantage it's unfair and has nothing to do with imposing morals.

I know what you speak of, Drok armour and Elite skills in Ascalon arena in GWP. But else where it matters not.

samifly · Aug 14, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Going thru every single mission in cantha for all 8 characters is annoying, not fun, and ruins the game, because I have to do all of the missions now, not at my lesiure. I can savor missions, because they havent been done to death.

**Marty Silverblade** · Aug 14, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifly

Going thru every single mission in cantha for all 8 characters is annoying.

Um, have you realised the point of playing to to do all the missions

? If you don't want to do all the missions again, don't make a new character. It's that simple.

Seventh · Aug 14, 2006, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

But then again..a big part of me feels that if someone wants to cheat themselves out of experienceing the full game by paying another to run them to Droks

Getting run by another runner is that person choice, if you think they are cheating themselves, let them cheat themselves, its their choice.

Prophecies allowed running, and that was freedom of choice. There were players who preferred to play through the game, and each time learn something new about the landscape. Also there were other who players preferred to get run, and skip some of the repetative story line. This freedom of choice had its ups and downs, but people were generally satisified with the arangment. Of-course there was arguing over wether it was appropriate to let people get run, and own high level armour early in the story line, but that was a minor problem.

When i bought Factions i was suprised to see that gates were introduced. Gates have ruined my gaming experience in Cantha because my exploration and curiosity has been hindered. The introduction of gates also felt improper to me because my freedom of choice was being taken away. I can no longer choose wether i wish to skip certain missions or play through them.

I have been known to buy runs and skip certain missions and areas, but that only enhanced my playing experience. I feel entrapped with the gate system, and it only forces me to make characters in Prophecies because i will not have to endure the Canthan restrictions.

Quote:

well we all know who they are cause one look at the armor and their level and you know what they did

Does it really matter what level they are when they have max armour? In Factions people get max armour in about the same amount of time it takes a Prophecies character get to Droknar and buy his/her armour. Alot of the Factions players at this stage are as experienced as the Prophecies player, so what makes you so beligerant towards Prophecies player getting their armour so early?

sabretalon · Aug 14, 2006, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Runners do not ruin the game!!!! It is you the buyer that is ruining it for yourself! You do not have to use them!!!

I agree the blocks were no good for the game but I would hate to see lvl 1 players heading over to vasburg armory and buying their 15k armor then shipping back to the island! Don't say it wouldn't be done if they were playing it through for the first time, it only takes a 12 year old kid with daddies credit card details to buy it from ebay!

I liked the idea that you had to get 10k of faction to earn their trust and that you had to have faction points before you could use their merchants etc...

"Does it really matter what level they are when they have max armour?" To me it does as if I had the max armor too early then I am not spending enough time understanding how my character deals with damage! In a game were now it is very easy for someone to spend a few quid to get hold of 1000k gold and buy their way through. I find that they are the main ones that cause a lot of problems with pugs. At one point in prophecies you respected the player in their FOW armor! Now anyone can buy that easily.

I still feel we need to have things that we earn and not buy in the game!

I do find it quite a joke that they are still putting in 2-3 damage weapons! Why not start with the 7-11 but a requirement of say level 5 to get the full use of it! That way the weapon you start with improves as you improve.

I'd also like to see more mods for wands and such as well as a mod storage and armor storage.

I think, you will still have the fast rate of levelling in NF as there was in factions, which was good for the casual player. The ability to customise your henchies is very intriguing and something I have wanted from the game. I go through a lot of the game with the guild but I set myself the challange of doing them again with henchies! I did it the opposite way in prophecies, I set my self up to do all the missions with henchies! Only got to the 3 asscension missions though

As for having to do the missions, well what is the point playing the game if you do not want to do them? This time round you have something to push for, not only to get through the mission but also to get masters.

Personally, I feel that if I was to buy my way through the game, I would have cheated myself. By playing through it with my characters I have developed them in a way I like. Not only that, after completing the game (is it ever complete? ;p) I don't get bored playing that character helping out guildies or just running around killing stuff. I have plenty to aim for, just got my 15k Kurzick armor, next is to look at upgrading my weapon set. So I have to go out and earn the gold to fund it! Yes I could roll out another character and use the gold from them but I still don't feel like I have finished with my current char! And she is a sin, who despite all the prejudice about sins has made it through and is enjoying the game each time she plays!

Question! If it is not fun then why play it? The problem with most people is, even if the games were perfect, they would still be searching for something to complain about!

Rent · Aug 14, 2006, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

GW's locked gates have nothing to do with story progression.

Locked gates had everything to do with story progression. That's why they were there????

Edit: Hoo boy, I just noticed you replied to me last page!

Quote:

Why? What was so great about them?

They were great for their uniqueness. Showed that they were absolutely unafraid to put in such a radically new design feature and damn what anyone thought, and in my opinion they turned out pretty well. Give me a linear game over a horribly nonlinear one anyday (yes, Saga Frontier, you were fun but for god's sake tell me where the hell to go).

Quote:

You are not making any sense, in one sentence you say the locked gates were the greatest feature of factions, in this one you say you never encountered them? But how can you say they were such a great feature if you've never encountered them?

And if you've never encountered them, you're not much of a gamer. You only follow your questlog and the green star on your map without ever wondering what is in the rest of the area, or ging there?

Locked gates are a major annoyance. I liked exploring the game world - and the designers made some nice trails and sights now and then. The locked gates completely destroy that experience.

rooooooofl

I'm not sure who you are to call me "not much of a gamer". Miyamoto-san, is that you?

God forbid my preferences and my gaming habits not be exactly the same as yours. Learn some tolerance, okay?

And no, I never ever ran into a gate I could not pass through, but that was because I followed those primary quests first and foremost (hence the "primary" status) and, once that was finished, went back and did any secondary quests that interested me. Simple as that. I don't need to have run into one to know of their existence and their purpose.

Xenrath · Aug 14, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

I see none of the "I hate runners and think gates are great" people are lining up to volunteer to redo missions for the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th time? I'll put that offer back up if gates are all over Nightfall. Because it's so much fun and enjoyable doing every mission over and over again, none of you will mind doing that for me will you.

Oh btw

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://guildwars.gameamp.com/guildwars/gwInterview

Wanna know a secret? We put in the ability to make such runs as an intended design element. Sure we could prevent it, but it's not our objective to do so. If people want to power-level a friend, or even turn offering a running service into a cash-raising profession, it's really ok with us.

There are two ways in which it would not be ok:

" If someone scams players by taking money and not making the run, they become a nuisance factor rather than a clever entrepreneur, and we would take action on that account.

" If we find that players are using runners to develop a character that is then abusive in PvP play by virtue of their higher-level acquisitions (particularly armor) we will need to take steps to prevent this.

In other words, to the extent that a practice like "running" or taking a shortcut might negatively affect other players, we'll be taking a look at it very carefully. If there's a lot of abuse of lower-level characters (those who are playing through the missions) by those who are taking the shortcut, we'll address it. I note that we did not choose to address the matter with last night's major game update, and I believe that is because the possible problems are not evident to such a degree that we need to make an amendment. But I just spoke with Lead Designer James Phinney, and he assured me that we will continue to assess the situation and we will come up with solutions if the scales tip towards the negative.

Official interviews ftw. Running was designed into it.

Prophecies story had no need for locked gates (you can always go back and do everything in sequence at any time)
Running was a design element. Lornar's was most likely made for running.
Gates aren't needed everywhere to stop PvP armour abuse (why not just put in level limits for equipment in low level PvP areas??)
Gates are irrlevent in Cantha to stop PvP abuse, since you can get max armour from Kaineng (low level Tyrian can still get there and back)
The gates are there to artificially lengthen a very short game.

Seventh · Aug 14, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

I feel that if I was to buy my way through the game, I would have cheated myself

That is how you feel, but this game caters to a large population. A large part of the population prefer to get run their third or fourth time. Why should people call them names for skipping the bland areas, and jumping straight into the action? You may feel cheated by doing this, but i am sure many other people have no such feelings.

Also i would like it if ebay was held out of this thread. I'm not sure why people always jump to ebay as their answer for everything.

Stockholm · Aug 14, 2006, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

If you're talking about 'skills' as in equipped skills, this isn't really a valid complaint. First, there are no skill quests in Factions, so whether you're run somewhere or not doesn't impact whether you have access to certain skills.

Yes it does, certain skills are not availeble until you have reach a certain lvl.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Second, even in Prophecies the primary quests beyond Pre-Searing didn't grant skills either. If anything, a player that has been run will be a better addition to the party, because they have access to *later game* skills and equipment. A lvl5 with elite skills and droks armor is a bit more powerful than a normal lvl5 with paper-thin armor and a handful of starting skills.

A lvl 5 with droks and elit skills(will fail 50% under att. 5-6) is a joke, I my self would never play with such a player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

If you're talking about 'skills' as in player skill, I don't believe this is a valid argument either. Sure, in theory, being forced to play the game should make you a better player, but looking around in mission towns this clearly isn't the case. Factions could not be 'run' through, but Factions players are still generally terrible - to the point where you are much more likely to complete most missions and quests with henchmen than with the typical PUG. Bad players are bad players because they don't think, and they don't learn. It doesn't matter if they play through every area of the game, or if they get run through every area of the game, they're still going to suck horribly and screw up your group. At least if they've been run through the game they'll be bad players with max armor and elite skills.

But they don't have the Att. points to use the skills or armour or weapons that they have, so a equal lvl player with skills and equipment matching their att. points at that lvl will be more usefull because they will at least get full use of their gear.

Tetris L · Aug 14, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

I very much liked the fact that the locked gates took running out of the game in Factions, almost entirely. Running is a plague that should be stopped. Good riddance, ANet!

However, I also agree that locked gates are not the ideal solution. There must be other, better countermeasures for running that still allow for non-linear playing. Personally I'd like to see it that not all party members are resurrected and teleported to the new location if only one party member enters a zone. Only party members who are within radar range should be teleported, the others should remain in the zone. Yes, in worst case that can mean that the party is split, but that is something I wouldn't mind.